You've got a marketing problem. At least, that's the story. So you hire the agency, buy the ads, rebuild the funnel.
You're Fixing the Wrong Thing
You hire the agency, buy the ads, and rebuild the funnel. Six months later, the phone is ringing, but you still can't make payroll.
In this episode
Operations cannot deliver what sales is selling, so marketing only makes the leak faster.
You keep chasing the loudest problem instead of finding the load-bearing thread.
In Episode 19 of From Burnt Out to Bought Out, Jon and Ryan break down why the problem getting your attention and the problem costing you money are usually two different things. They map the seven connected pillars cash, business operating system, operations, financial intelligence, tax planning, marketing and sales, and exit planning and show why “marketing just made the leak faster” when operations could not deliver what sales was selling. You’ll learn to ask what had to be true one step upstream, match the weakest pillar to your actual business stage, and score each pillar from one to 10 without generously rounding. Then they give you the one, three, five, seven rhythm: one pillar at a time, three months to make it automatic, five quarterly Rocks to lock it in, and seven pillars integrated over two to three years.
If you're pouring more money into marketing while cash tightens, working from gut instead of data, or fixing each fire without tracing what sits one step upstream this one's for you.
Chapters
Transcript · full conversation
Six months later, the phone is finally ringing, and you still can't make payroll. Because it was never a marketing problem. It was a cash problem wearing a marketing costume.
Today, we show you how to stop fixing the thing that screams and start fixing the things that's actually broken. Because the loudest problem in your business is almost never the right one. Welcome to From Burnout to Bought Out, the podcast for business owners who are tired of being the hardest working, lowest paid employee in their own company.
I'm John, joined as always by Ryan, and together we've spent years inside owner-led businesses helping founders go from running on fumes to running a business that actually runs without them. Every episode, we break down the real problems nobody talks about, the burnout, the bottlenecks, the blind spots, and show you what it looks like to build a business that's profitable, sellable, and doesn't need you in the building every day to survive. Whether you're grinding through a plateau, thinking about an exit, or just trying to take a vacation without your phone blowing up, you're in the right place.
Let's get into it. Ryan. John.
What is a marketing costume, and do I wear one often? Well, John, when you wear a costume, it's rarely a marketing one. I try to bury it up. You're wearing a clown one, yeah.
Donkey. Oh, I see where you're going with that. Am I still a jackass on the email notifications? You absolutely, have we gotten your head shot? Probably not.
It's lost in the mail. It's in my spam, probably somewhere. It's gonna stay there for a little while.
It improves my looks. We said that last episode. You're dressed up though today.
You got a bandaid on your face. I did, yeah. I got, it was a big thing, earthquake, fight, you know, the whole thing.
But, you know, hey, I saved the nuns. So that's the only thing that's important. Awesome.
Well, I can't decide whether you look like Nellie or Nellie Furtado. I don't know whether it's hot in here or you're like a bird. Oh, I'm in here, so it's definitely hot.
And I'm not gonna lie, it's hot in here. You know, birds aren't real, so. There we go.
Earth's flat. Oh, okay, awesome. Yeah, let's get to it.
So every owner who calls us is 100% sure they know the problems that they need to fix, but how often are they right? And, you know, I'm sure we've got some specific examples, composite stores, et cetera, et cetera. And I know there's one that you're itching to tell. Yeah, so an owner convinced the problem was lead flow.
So poured a ton of money into marketing, leads went up, but the business got tighter, not looser. Because marketing wasn't the problem. The root cause was operations couldn't deliver what sales was actually selling.
Marketing just made the leak faster. The problem that gets your attention and the problem that's actually costing you money are usually two different things. One yells, but the other one quietly empties the bank accounts, right? And so we call these a pillar in which, you know, every organization has seven of them, and we'll get into that a little bit more.
But what happens is, is that everything is operating in silos. Sales doesn't know what operations doing, which is finance versus exit planning, tax planning, all that kind of stuff. And we'll get into what those are, but they all operate independently.
And they're usually done by a different person. You know, whenever does your CPA talk to your finance people or your salesperson or, you know, operations? So that's the trap, right? Sales without operations is a cash bonfire. Operations without marketing is an empty calendar, right? And numbers without strategy is worthless.
Got it, yeah. But I mean, I feel like owners should know their business better than we do. Why is it they are so often misdiagnosing what the exact problem is? Well, they're going with their gut, right? Generally speaking, owners are going to the biggest fire, putting it out, going to the next fire, going to these things, right? And rarely do they go beyond skimming the surface to really go back down deep and find out what the actual root cause is, right? And also having the time to step away and see how things are looking at the 30,000 foot view.
Yeah, they're pulled all over the place. So in that specific example where the owner's like, oh, we're cash crunch, we need some more revenue. Let's pour more fuel on the marketing file.
And actually it's a whole bunch of inefficiencies that are burning hours. And when you dump more customers on inefficiency, it just exacerbates the problem. So in that specific example, it was misdiagnosed.
So before we go into diagnosis, let's give people a bit more of the math. Seven pillars, 10 words each, go. All right.
Cash. Cash is oxygen, pay yourself first. Business operating system.
The operating rhythm, scorecard, rocks, weekly meetings. Operations. Fix the machine before you add fuel.
Financial intelligence. Close clean, forecast forward, 13 weeks of visibility. Tax planning.
It's about the calendar, not the calculator. Marketing and sales. Know your CAC, right? And your lifetime value.
Never scale past your capacity. Exit planning. Build a business that runs without you.
The key here is those seven items need to be connected. That's where the beauty is. If they're all working independently, you've got chaos.
But when they're starting to understand how they're all connected, one with the other, operations affecting marketing, that affects financial intelligence, that affects exit planning, that's where it is. There's 27 lines between them. One always is pulling on something else.
Okay, the key point there, to reiterate it, it's not the circles, it's the line in between them that really allows the connectivity, the connected tissue of an organization to really operate at maximum capacity. That's it, John. Great, I just have to repeat what you say.
You sound really intelligent right now. I try my best. That's my job, just to make you look intelligent and parrot it.
Okay, fun fact time. All right, fun fact. Spider silk, weight for weight, is stronger than steel and tougher than Kevlar.
The web looks fragile, but the whole thing holds because of the connections. Not any single strand, right? Does that sound familiar? Your business is the same. The strength was never in one pillar.
It's in the entire web. Deep and relevant. It's what we try here.
Yeah, we're achieving it today. Quick break, brought to you today by Joe Cutter's Turf and Snow out of Pittsburgh in New York, serving all around Rochester and Monroe County. And this one ties right into the episode, which I appreciate because most people think a bad lawn is a grass problem.
And it is almost always a soil problem. That's the whole thing. Joe does the unglamorous stuff under the surface, aeration, soil grading, conditioning, the root work that actually fixes it.
Instead of spraying it green for a week and calling it salt, which is the loudest problem lie in lawn form? Exactly the episode. 21 years in, only outfit in the county, running Ventrac compact tractors, cleaner, more effective. Lawn care, mosquito and tick landscaping.
And when the Rochester winter shows up, snow removal and ice control. You have thoughts about the snow part? Oh my gosh, yes. As a Canadian, I have opinions about snow removal and I am legally required to keep them to myself on an American podcast.
That is my one. That's your one. Free estimates, call 585-248-8873 or find them at CutterTurf.com. Fix the root, not the symptom.
Fitting, right? Did you say Ventrac? Those are the best in the business. They are the best in the business, Ventrac. Shout out to Panda Nation.
Joe will know what that means, calling card. Nice. He's the only one.
Yes. No, he's got a whole nation out there. He's got some followers there.
His social media is stacked full of tips and tricks, life hacks and such like. Interesting dude. Okay, so we touched on one thread or we say we're touching on one thread.
The whole thread moves. Give me the classic misdiagnoses, the symptom people face versus what actually is pulling at the thread. So, typical cash problem, but it's actually an operations problem because the money's okay on paper, but it's trapped in rework, slow delivery and whip.
There's a marketing problem, but it's really a capacity problem because marketing is promising two weeks and operations is delivering in six. Tax problem in April, but it's really a cash planning problem in March. The CPA did their job, but you didn't fund the jar to pay it.
A growth problem that's a forecast problem. The CFO forecasts growth. The bank account disagrees because hoping is not a plan.
The diagnostic question that we have to give you is when this problem shows up, what had to be true one step upstream? Keep asking until you hit something you can actually fix, right, and that's how you get there. Okay, so, I mean, can't some of these really be the problem they look like? Not everything is secretive, it's not hidden. No, sometimes the problem is just the problem, right? It is what it is.
Marketing's not delivering on ROI, right? There you go, very, very simple. Rare, right? Possible. Right, okay, we'll put it the other way.
Sales isn't converting, right, on these magical, wonderful, qualified leads that marketing is providing, right? That's often the problem. So that, you know, that's the problem, and the answer isn't pouring more cash into it. It's actually fixing that marketing problem, right? But in the example we gave, if you can't deliver what you're saying, right, and if we're promising two weeks and you're six weeks out, that's an issue.
The other issue is, well, maybe it's an operations problem. Why aren't we delivering in six weeks? That's an efficiency problem. That's a scheduling problem.
That's whatever that is, rework problem, right? If we can't get it out the door right the first time, we have to bring it back in and do the work all over again. That costs us time and money, right? I think one of the key things, and obviously just to tap back into the lines, not the circles, you know, all of these problems and all of these issues can exist, and if you're in a silo and there's no communication going on in the organization, then it's really difficult to uncover that, right? If people aren't communicating, then to be able to air all these problems out, get them on the table, talk through them as a team, and fix them is nigh on impossible. The seven pillar system and the operating system that we talk about is kind of key component of that, right? What's most important about that cadence and that sort of cycle of communications necessary to uncover some of this stuff? Well, you need to get everybody in the same room hearing the same things.
All your decision makers, department heads, people who need to lead your company, right, towards that exit plan that you can go away for three weeks, well, they need practice now, and they need to talk about it together and make the decisions together. So if I'm the finance person and I'm really good at collecting money, right, and that's all I'm focused on is making sure that my AR over 30 days is less than 20%, and I'm doing that, but I'm finding out that there's no sales in the funnel, right, there's no cash in the bank, there's no operations is 12 weeks out and we're missing those targets. If I'm only focused on the collections, I've missed everything else.
It doesn't matter about anything, right? Yeah, it's so difficult. It's so easy to get sucked into your own silo, right? Like if you, back to the example, sales and marketing selling something with a two week turnaround, what you're gonna get is a bunch of phone calls coming in from customers that you just sold and you're solving problems. You're starting to tap dance, you're having those conversations with those customers.
You're not knocking on operations doors and saying, hey, what's going on with our process here and trying to fix their problem. So if you don't have those regular communication sessions and everybody in the same room, it's difficult to air it all out. I think that's one of the most important things about that leadership meeting cadence that we push so hard that we talk an awful lot about because those weekly meetings that are very well structured and get all tables, all issues on the table for people to discuss is super important.
You got it. Yes, indeed. Alrighty, time for the marketing tip of the week.
This week, it is about reviews and Google Maps and specifically Google reviews. So here's the tip. Reviews and especially Google reviews are not about vanity.
They're a conversion and ranking asset. Google Maps and your business profile will rank depending on the number and the quality of reviews you receive. So pay close attention to those reviews, reply to them, call the people that give you poor reviews and try and resolve the problem.
Get those reviews removed because they bring your score down and you want a large number of high scoring reviews. You then rank higher and match. That gets you more telephone calls and obviously it's a self-fulfilling prophecy of success for your marketing channel.
Also be cautious. As you build these reviews, build them steadily and use the technology available to help you. A steady drip of fresh reviews beats a pile of old five-star reviews from three or four years ago.
And for local businesses, this stuff is critical. The map pack is the phone. It's how you get customers.
If you're not there, you're paying more for leads than you should be, which is kind of exactly what we're talking about in our episode this week. So the single step this week, text or email your last five happy customers and give them your direct Google review link. It's in your My Business profile settings and reply to each review that you already have, good and bad.
Do this as soon as they come in. That's the whole week one move. All right.
Back to it. Okay, so even if you find a real problem, it can still be the wrong thing to work on right now. Walk us through the stages and one priority each and the classic mistake at each of the different stages.
Yeah, so we talked about the stages last week to find those. Treadmill is you need to prioritize cash and a basic rhythm, right? The mistake that a lot of treadmill operators make is that they're trying to build a fancy funnel or an exit deck while the accounts are bleeding money, right? So you can't exit plan your way out of an overdraft in your bank account. So focus on cash and getting a rhythm.
The pathfinder, right, is your priority should be systems and clean books, right? And try to get the owner out of every decision. Now we're starting to build up a team, right? Generally, mistake is that we're chasing revenue but the machine can't hold the weight of it right now, right? Trailblazers, right? Focus on forecasts governed for growth, tax planning and match your marketing to capacity. The general mistake is that they're trying to really establish a treadmill error habit instead of a rolling forecast, right? Going by gut instead of really looking at data.
Peak performer is you need to get all seven of the pillars that we talked about synchronized and start getting to real exit readiness. Generally speaking, the mistake is that we're trying to make sure that we're optimizing marketing, right? For another 3% return on investment while really everything's still dependent on the owner. And then the legacy builder, right, is you need to harvest the value on your terms.
Risk mitigation, making sure you have the team in place, you're solid. Generally speaking, the mistake is that exit is an event, right, instead of a state of mind that you've been building for years, right? Pick the right pillar but at the wrong stage and it's still the wrong thing, right? So you gotta make sure that you focus on those things. Got it, I'm just gonna land that.
The right pillar at the wrong stage is still the wrong thing. Yes, it is. All right, all right, good advice.
All right, time for a word from our sponsor. One more from Joe Cutter's Turf and Snow. And this one's for the Rochester listeners because you people have a specific kind of denial about winter.
The denial is real. Every October, a Rochester homeowner looks at the sky and thinks, maybe this year. It's not going to be this year.
It has never been this year. Rochester winter is not a maybe, it's a scheduled appointment you keep forgetting you made. So the move is snow removal and ice control locked in now, done before the city plow buries your driveway for the third time out of spite.
Joe's crews get there before the storm's done showing off. That's the difference between I have a plan and I'm in my bathroom at 6 a.m. negotiating with a shovel. And I speak as a Canadian when I say the shovel always wins that negotiation.
You said that was your one last segment. I contain multiple ones. Call Joe, 585-248-8873, cutterturf.com, before the bathrobe.
Before the bathrobe, great tagline. Don't put that on the truck, put the number on the truck. 585-248-8873.
How the hell did I get stuck with the number this time? Finally, finally got a number in there. I put it in, I edited it and gave you a damn number. Pandanation.
Pandanation, 585-248-turf. Okay, Ryan, so this is the part people have been waiting for. How do they figure out their real weakest link instead of the loudest one? I think you gotta take 60 seconds to self-diagnose, right? Score each of the seven pillars, one to 10.
Don't generously round. If you haven't fully implemented it, you don't get the points. And it totals up to 70, right? So you score them out, and if you're 35 or below, you're probably in the treadmill or early pathfinder.
If you're 36 to 49, pathfinder or trailblazer. 50 to 59, trailblazer or peak. And 60 plus, you're in that peak or legacy reading.
Most important thing is circle your two lowest scores. That's your starting line. Cross-check against your stage.
If your lowest pillar is also a stage priority, that's where you go. If a stage priority pillar scores a one to three, stop the bleeding there first, right? The one, three, five, seven rhythm, one pillar deep at a time, three months to make it automatic, five quarter rocks to lock it in, and then seven pillars integrated over two to three years, right? And that's where it's gonna get you. Gotcha.
All righty. So just a word of advice with scoring, like how does somebody score themselves honestly? And won't they just generally rate themselves a bit more generously? Yeah, absolutely. That's usually human nature, right? If we can't be self-critical, so then pass it on to your leadership team.
Rank these, right? What's this for? Don't worry about it. Just go ahead and rank it. I don't even know what this is.
Okay, well, that's a one, right? And then you move on to there and you see what the folks think. Yeah, love it. Love that collaborative discussion on it.
And then you've got a scorecard there to be able to gauge your actions. Okay, so as per all episodes, owners on the commute right now listening to this podcast, what one thing do they do this week? I think tonight, not Monday, score the seven pillars, one to 10, circle your two lowest, then do the honest cross check. Which of those two is a priority for the stage you're actually in? That's the one.
Put it on next week's scorecard with an owner and a date. Get the accountability going. One pillar, 90 days, and just keep it strictly tactical.
And that's gonna take you to the next level. Got it. Awesome.
Great episode. Give us a takeaway here, Ryan. Here's the thing to keep.
The loudest problem in your business is almost never the right one. Your company is not a to-do list, it's a web. Every pillar is pulling on the others.
So the fix that matters is really the fix that's screaming. Find the load-bearing thread, match it to the stage you're actually in, not the one on your business card, the one that states reality. Pull that thread, and the whole web tightens.
Chase the noise, and you'll spend another year fixing the wrong thing while the right thing quietly costs you the business. Excellent. Good stuff.
A lot of really good guidance there for our listener base. Again, the screaming problem is not necessarily the right one to go and fix. There's a model here.
You gotta follow the model. And everything will work itself out. It certainly will.
Just go to the source. That's it. Excellent.
Okay, over and out. Anything else for this episode? I think we can sign off now. Yeah.
Hasta luego. See you next episode. Ciao, ciao.
That's it for this episode of From Burnout to Bought Out. If something we said today hit home, don't just nod in agreement. Pick one thing, the number you've been avoiding, the process that only lives in your head, the conversation you've been putting off for six months.
Do that one thing this week. That's how it starts. And if you're not sure which one thing to pick, drop us a line.
We'll happily point you in the right direction. New episodes drop every week. Until next time, stop running the treadmill and start building something you can actually sell.
Your hosts
RyanFormer accountant, fractional CFO and Certified Exit Planning Advisor. Author of the forthcoming 3:17 AM. Co-founder of Synergy Solutions.
More about Ryan
JonMarketer and agency owner who has run his own businesses. Sits in the fractional CMO seat at Synergy Solutions and asks the questions on the show.
More about Jon